Hampshire - Suffolk - Rutland - Herefordshire Tree

Mary Lovelock1781

Name
Mary Lovelock
Given names
Mary
Surname
Lovelock
Birth 20 September 1781 38 42

Source: IGI - LDS
Note: RL 13/7/07: As yet we have no PR entry for Mary's baptism or birth. On the Lovelock website we have …
Christening of a sisterLydia Lovelock
1 January 1784 (Age 2 years)
Text:

1784 Jan 1 Lydia s. [sic]** Thos & Lydia Lovelock ** Website error or in Modern Transcript? (RL 13/7/07)

Note: RL 13/7/07: Also in the IGI - see note to sister Mary's birth.
Christening of a brotherJohn Lovelock
2 January 1786 (Age 4 years)
Text:

1786 Jan 2 John s. Thos & Lydia Lovelock

Note: RL 13/7/07: Also in the IGI - see note to sister Mary's birth.
Death of a motherLydia Carter
1820 (Age 38 years)

Burial of a motherLydia Carter
21 November 1820 (Age 39 years)
Text:

1820 Nov 21 Lydia Lovelock at Brambridge in Parish of Twyford 80

Note: Hampshire Burial Index also records the event: 1820 Nov 21 Lydia Lovelock 80.
Death of a fatherThomas Lovelock
1827 (Age 45 years)

Burial of a fatherThomas Lovelock
18 February 1827 (Age 45 years)
Text:

1827 Feb 18 Thomas Lovelock at Broom Hill in Parish of Otterbourn 83

Note: RL 13/7/07: Given that the heading to the extracted Twyford Burials on the Lovelock website reads "Twyford Burials 1626-1852 (Modern Transcript) Also MIs.", and that BroomHill is stated as being in the 'Parish of Otterbourn' [sic], it may be that this specific entry is from the MIs. Hampshire Burial Index also records the event: 1827 Feb 18 Thomas Lovelock 83.
Census 1851 (Age 69 years)
Citation details: agreed transcription added RL 25-Jun-07
Quality of data: primary evidence
Note: RL 13/7/07: See also note to this 'fact' and general note.
Note: RL 13/7/07: {This note (originally added 25/6/07 as part of a general note to Thomas Lovelock born a…
Death of a brotherThomas Lovelock
about September 1854 (Age 72 years)
Source: GRO - FreeBMD
Citation details: Death in 3Q 1854 in Winchester RD, ref 2c 64
Quality of data: primary evidence
Shared note: RL 19/3/07: GRO entry is believed to refer to this Thomas L, who we've captured in 1841 and 1851 but can't locate in later censuses. [However, see notes to son Thomas bap 1817.]
Death of a sisterLydia Lovelock
between January 1857 and March 1857 (Age 75 years)

Text:

Winchester RD, ref 2c 65 (age 73) (registered as Lydia Woods)

Death of a brotherJohn Lovelock
between April 1859 and June 1859 (Age 77 years)

Deathyes

Family with parents - View this family
father
mother
Marriage: 21 November 1771Twyford, Winchester, Hampshire, England
13 months
elder brother
1 year
elder brother
22 months
elder sister
4 years
elder brother
3 years
herself
2 years
younger sister
Lydia Lovelock
Christening: 1 January 1784 41 45Twyford, Winchester, Hampshire, England
Death: between January 1857 and March 1857
2 years
younger brother
John Lovelock
Christening: 2 January 1786 43 47Twyford, Winchester, Hampshire, England
Death: between April 1859 and June 1859

BirthIGI - LDS
Note: RL 13/7/07: As yet we have no PR entry for Mary's baptism or birth. On the Lovelock website we have …
Census1851 British Census
CensusRobin Lovelock & Graham Lovelock: email discussions July 2006/July 2007
Citation details: agreed transcription added RL 25-Jun-07
Quality of data: primary evidence
Note: RL 13/7/07: See also note to this 'fact' and general note.
SourceRobin Lovelock, updated gedcom 24-Aug-07
Publication: Updated gedcom file provided by Robin Lovelock 24 Aug 2007. Includes contributions from Graham Lovelock
SourceRobin Lovelock & Graham Lovelock: email discussions July 2006/July 2007
Note: Especially exchanges 26/6/06 - 12/7/07 (involving James too), and in particular 10/12 July 07.
Birth

RL 13/7/07: As yet we have no PR entry for Mary's baptism or birth. On the Lovelock website we have the following re. the IGI entry: "(Birth 1781 Sep 20) Mary (of) Thomas & Lydia." None of the other children of Thomas and Lydia we have identified are stated as having IGI birth or baptism entries; Mary alone does not (apparently) appear in the PR. In fact, an on-line IGI search (13/7/07) located baptism entries for Thomas bap 1772, Lydia bap 1784, and John bap 1786, as well as Mary's <i>birth</i> 1781. In each case the mother is stated as Lydia (no surname) and the IGI has no marriage of a Thomas L to a Lydia in England.

Census

RL 13/7/07: {This note (originally added 25/6/07 as part of a general note to Thomas Lovelock born about 1779) was moved here and amended as appropriate.}

Graham and I believe that the Mary Lovelock in the following 1851 census entry may well be a sister of Thomas born about 1779 who married Olive Matton.

St Thomas Street, St Thomas, Winchester HO107 1674 F63 P16

Thomas Deame;Head;W;91;Banker;Berks, Reading C M Deame;Son;M;48[?];Banker;Hants, Winchester C Deame;Daur in Law;M;35;Wife [unclear];Hounduras [sic], WI Fredrick [sic] A Willis;Visitor;U;20[?];Army Officer;Middx, Kensington Mary A Deame;Niece;U;19;;Hants, Bighton A Deame;Niece;U;18;;Hants, Bighton F E Deame;Grand Daur;;7;;Hants, Winchester Mary Lovelock;Servant;U;67[?];;Hants, Winchester Hugh Pickering [?];Servant;U;38;;Hants, Greywell Mary Palmer;Servant;U;31;;Hants, Wonston Charlotte Clements;Servant;U;30;;Hants, Dummer Rachel Russell;Servant;U;22;;Hants [sic], Brixton I W

There are two evident difficulties, in that Mary L in the above entry is stated as aged 67 and born Winchester. Although S&N's transcribers have given her age as 69, which would be more helpful to us, I'm convinced by studying the enumerator's style on this and adjacent pages that the figure in question is a [very ornate] 7; his/her 9s are quite different and could be nothing else. Twyford village is not far distant from Winchester and as Mary was a servant in the household she perhaps may not have given her details herself, which could account for both 'variations'. Moreover, we only have her birth date from the IGI (and I can't find her in LDS British Vital Records, 2nd Edn). Neither do there appear to be any other likely Mary Ls around the Winchester area for the above 1851 entry (see also general note), although of course Winchester was a considerable place, relatively speaking.

Census

RL 13/7/07: See also note to this 'fact' and general note.

Shared note

RL 13/7/07: In addition to the claim that this Mary L appears in the 1851 census as a servant in Winchester St Thomas, we may speculate whether she was the Mary L recorded as a Witness to the marriage of her younger sister Lydia to Aaron Atwood(s) in 1811. She would seem to be the most likely candidate, along with either her brother Thomas b abt 1779 or their father Thomas. We have found no record of either her marriage or her death before 1811 (or later), either of which events may be recorded in a PR somewhere from which we have so far not extracted it. However, our failure to locate her in 1841, and uncertainties around whether it is her in the 1851 Winchester St Thomas entry, mean that she could have either married or died before 1841, if not before 1811.

As Graham pointed out (11/7): "... ... we have a gap in the Twyford marriages from 1771 to 1811, which might be real, especially as the indication is that there are entries to cover the period, but it is certainly disappointing if true. There being no Lovelock baptisms after 1786 is consistent with the marriage gap I suppose ... ..."

We do have a few Mary Ls in the Compton tree 'accounting' for several of the available BMD records for the wider area, but among the current 'remainder' from our website extracts are a marriage in Winchester St Bartholomew 1809 Jan 17 Mary Lovelock and William Lee (Pallot's Marriage Index) and a burial in Winchester St Peter Chesil 1820 Oct 29 Mary Lovelock 34 (Hampshire Burial Index). The former could possibly be Mary d Thomas and Lydia; the latter only so if the stated age at death is 'out' for a birth in 1781 or 1783/4. [The following additional Mary L marriage in Winchester St Lawrence is no use either here: 1786 Jan 15 Henry Miles and Mary Lovelock (Phillimore's/Boyd's Marriage Index 1754-1812 - and IGI); perhaps it will become relevant to us one day!]

If Mary L b 1821 was not the Witness at her sister Lydia's wedding in 1811 (see above), who was that Mary L? An intriguing speculation is that she might have been one of the Mary L's in the Compton tree, for example Mary née Child(e)s - even that Witness Thomas was that Mary L's husband (and presently progenitor of the Compton tree). This begs rather than demonstrates a connection between these two trees of course.

The foregoing specific bit of speculation by Graham and myself (Robin) arose out of my observing that a remarkable number of different persons named Carter crop up in PR entries involving Lovelocks of the same period in <i>both </i>the H-to-H and the Compton trees. (Including 8-yr-old Martha Carter, in Winchester, "near the Wharf", in 1841, with Thomas L bap 10 Aug 1788 at Compton and his wife Martha (Unknown). Martha (C) could very well be a daughter of Mary née Lovelock, Thomas's sister, who married William Carter at Compton on 31 Aug 1826 (see the Compton tree).<i> [24/8/07: See also speculation by John Lewis on the Lovelock List 19/8/07.] </i> RL (10/7/07) with GL comments (same date) inserted in caps: "The Charles Lovelock who witnessed the marriage of Thomas Carter and Sarah Harris (both of Twyford) in 1830 could well be the Charles (bap 1800 at Compton - Compton tree) who married Mary Ann Cook in 1830. [IN THE APPARENT ABSENCE OF ANY CHARLES IN THE TWYFORD RECORDS BEFORE 1830 I THINK IT'S A GOOD POSSIBILITY. AS SARAH HARRIS WAS A SPINSTER A REASONABLE CONJECTURE WOULD BE THAT CHARLES L AND THOMAS CARTER WERE CONNECTED BY THOMAS BEING A BROTHER-IN-LAW OF CHARLES' SISTER MARY, AND A SLIGHTLY WILDER CONJECTURE WOULD BE THAT LYDIA CARTER WOULD BE A GREAT-AUNT OF THOMAS AND WILLIAM CARTER. BUT WAIT - AM I MISSING ANOTHER TRICK - WHO WAS THE MARY L WHO WITNESSED LYDIA L'S MARRIAGE TO AARON ATWOODS IN 1811?] Charles son of Charles and Mary Ann was born Twyford 1833 according to the IGI and gave Twyford as his birthplace in the 1861, 1871 and 1901 censuses; but he gave St Cross (where his sister Mary Ann was bap 1837) in 1881 and Winchester in 1891. The sister of Charles bap 1800 - Mary (bap Compton 1803) - married William Carter in Compton 1826 (both stated as of Compton). Thomas Lovelock, father of Thomas bap 1779 (and until now H-to-H progenitor), of course married Lydia Carter in 1826 (both of Twyford). Compton and Twyford aren't far apart. ... ... ..."

There is of course no more prima facie justification for assuming that all these Carters were related to each other than that all the Lovelocks concerned were.

Source

Especially exchanges 26/6/06 - 12/7/07 (involving James too), and in particular 10/12 July 07. Agreed transcription of 1851 census extract originally added RL 25-Jun-07 in then note to Thomas b abt 1779; moved here 13-Jul-07.